Does worshiping god help mankind?

[wickedsweet]

Eh, I still have to live up to plenty of expectations, those I place on myself and those placed on me by others.I don't hate that, I may fear that I'm not always up to them or wish I was somewhere else doing something else but I am accountable to real living beings and my own sense of morality. I also have to accept actions and failures as my own (no the devil or my weak spirit to blame) and I understand that when faced with adversity the solutions are to be found in my own works or the kindess and strength of family and friend or among the wonders of humanity, if at all, and that there is no such thing as "divine intervention" to save my butt. Was coming to terms with the fact that I know there is no god liberating? Yes in some ways, very much so, but with it comes a great deal of personal responsibility.


But sure yeah, I'd like to believe just as I'd love to believe in love at first sight and Santa and that there is someone, somewhere for everyone and that what comes around always goes around but I don't and I when I tried to convince myself that I did it made me a liar and that's something I'm not comfortable with being.

[vonnegut]

Originally Posted by wickedsweet

But sure yeah, I'd like to believe just as I'd love to believe in love at first sight and Santa

Sheesh, those are just about the only two things I do believe in.

[waiting]

Originally Posted by wickedsweet

Eh, I still have to live up to plenty of expectations, those I place on myself and those placed on me by others.I don't hate that, I may fear that I'm not always up to them or wish I was somewhere else doing something else but I am accountable to real living beings and my own sense of morality. I also have to accept actions and failures as my own (no the devil or my weak spirit to blame) and I understand that when faced with adversity the solutions are to be found in my own works or the kindess and strength of family and friend or among the wonders of humanity, if at all, and that there is no such thing as "divine intervention" to save my butt. Was coming to terms with the fact that I know there is no god liberating? Yes in some ways, very much so, but with it comes a great deal of personal responsibility.


But sure yeah, I'd like to believe just as I'd love to believe in love at first sight and Santa and that there is someone, somewhere for everyone and that what comes around always goes around but I don't and I when I tried to convince myself that I did it made me a liar and that's something I'm not comfortable with being.

I completely understand your feelings and you explained that in a way that I can entirely relate to. You explained my life as well, in a way. *Big Hug*

When I first realized the things that you just talked about, I felt really lonely. And I often still do feel very lonely. I don't mean lonely like really being alone in life. Though I was during much of my childhood. I found some way to reconnect with "God", through realizing that I was one part of a ginormous thing. The human race. And I really don't mean God in the sense of organized religion or most kinds of religious practice. It's living your principles and an understanding that we are all on the same trip and looking outward instead of focusing only on me. And my spiritual lonliness has gotten much less since then. Being a responsible human is no easy task and one that we all have stumbled with, I'm sure. But the intent and the practice of being the best human that you can be, while recognizing the connection we have to all others is certainly the most rewarding in the long run. People are all the more "rich" for experiencing human connections and practicing kindness and being compassionate, while setting the example of a responsible, honest, fair, adult who learns from their experiences and applies that knowledge to their life. And that doesn't mean taking crap and letting people walk all over you. I think what I am saying is that I didn't find anything that had real deep meaning in the traditional form of religion. later, when I got older, I looked into the Buddhist philosophy, and felt a real sense of connection with it. It comes the closest to how I feel after searching through every religious text I could get my hands on, and every theory of deity, both ancient and modern. I tried to find God whever I could. I was really looking for it. I found it, in me and in my fellow humans.

Originally Posted by vonnegut

Sheesh, those are just about the only two things I do believe in.

[Lostviking]

Ok, I am sorry for starting this thread then going AWOL. Real life is kicking me hard right now - so good to have a distraction

I want to respond to the things everyone said here. But that will have to wait till later. I think my point was muddied. What I meant to say was this: I am certain that god and the belief in god is very helpful to a lot of people. I meant mankind as in the human condition. Does the time spent on getting people into your church and the time spent worshipping in your church, reading your bible and praying to god, do anything? All that freaking time, is that really helping fight poverty, starvation, wife beating, child abuse?

I say no.


I think if you add all those trillions of man hours and dollars given to the cause, you will find that less than 10% of it makes its way to the needy. I theorize if we simply directed all that energy into helping people all the problems would vanish. My evidence that this is true is the very prevalence and growth of these problems.


JLP, You are so vain dude. I was not referring to you or thinking of you at all when I wrote this thread. PEACE MAN!
I was referring to all the posters who make it known how many times they have read the bible, or spend in church, or praying to god.

[vonnegut]

Originally Posted by Lostviking

Ok, I am sorry for starting this thread then going AWOL. Real life is kicking me hard right now - so good to have a distraction

I want to respond to the things everyone said here. But that will have to wait till later. I think my point was muddied. What I meant to say was this: I am certain that god and the belief in god is very helpful to a lot of people. I meant mankind as in the human condition. Does the time spent on getting people into your church and the time spent worshipping in your church, reading your bible and praying to god, do anything? All that freaking time, is that really helping fight poverty, starvation, wife beating, child abuse?

I say no.


I think if you add all those trillions of man hours and dollars given to the cause, you will find that less than 10% of it makes its way to the needy. I theorize if we simply directed all that energy into helping people all the problems would vanish. My evidence that this is true is the very prevalence and growth of these problems.

Well, I depends on who is being helped. I mean, for some, without the time spent praying and being religious, they wouldn't have the ability to go out and solve problems.

[Jack T Kirk]

Originally Posted by Lostviking

I think if you add all those trillions of man hours and dollars given to the cause, you will find that less than 10% of it makes its way to the needy.

What was it that Mr. Mark Twain said once? Oh yeah, there are only three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I theorize if we simply directed all that energy into helping people all the problems would vanish. My evidence that this is true is the very prevalence and growth of these problems.

You theorize...hah. That's all you ever do, dude. By the way, your evidence of the problem...is the problem. Sense this does not make, padawan.

JLP, You are so vain dude. I was not referring to you or thinking of you at all when I wrote this thread. :rotfl

I believe this falls under the damn lie category.

[Lostviking]

Originally Posted by vonnegut

Well, I depends on who is being helped. I mean, for some, without the time spent praying and being religious, they wouldn't have the ability to go out and solve problems.

Why? Because it gives them the incentive to go out and help people? The old no such thing as a selfless act?

But there is no evidence of this happening on a massive scale. Sure church groups help people. They minister to the sick and needy. They travel the world handing out much desired food and care. But thats such a small amount of help. And so much of the money sent to churches for this purpose never gets there.

I am talking about the sum total here, not specifics. Not any one religion. Vonne, so little is actually done by so few. Am I way off here?

[Lostviking]

Originally Posted by John Locke Picard

What was it that Mr. Mark Twain said once? Oh yeah, there are only three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.



You theorize...hah. That's all you ever do, dude. By the way, your evidence of the problem...is the problem. Sense this does not make, padawan.



I believe this falls under the damn lie category.

I must be close to the truth for you to react this way. Take a valium JLP, this is not about you. The sun and earth and stars have different orbits, I assure you.

[Jack T Kirk]

Originally Posted by Lostviking

Why? Because it gives them the incentive to go out and help people? The old no such thing as a selfless act?

But there is no evidence of this happening on a massive scale. Sure church groups help people. They minister to the sick and needy. They travel the world handing out much desired food and care. But thats such a small amount of help. And so much of the money sent to churches for this purpose never gets there.

I am talking about the sum total here, not specifics. Not any one religion. Vonne, so little is actually done by so few. Am I way off here?

You're talking out your ass. There's all kinds of churches with all sorts of different ministries. Just who are you talking about, exactly? The baptist church down the street? The Lutheran missionaries in Africa? Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort and the whole TBN network? How do you know how much is allocated toward helping the needy? I don't suppose you do the books for every church in America? Who are you to judge how much and where people give of their hearts? Finally, you don't know how far even the smallest effort goes. If you're so gung ho about helping the needy, why don't you lend a hand, instead of QQing about the charity of Christians? Go down to your local church and help them with the food drives, the toys for tots, or attend an AA meeting, and actually learn something about church ministries, why don't you?

[Lostviking]

Originally Posted by John Locke Picard

You're talking out your ass. There's all kinds of churches with all sorts of different ministries. Just who are you talking about, exactly? The baptist church down the street? The Lutheran missionaries in Africa? Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort and the whole TBN network? How do you know how much is allocated toward helping the needy? I don't suppose you do the books for every church in America? Who are you to judge how much and where people give of their hearts? Finally, you don't know how far even the smallest effort goes. If you're so gung ho about helping the needy, why don't you lend a hand, instead of QQing about the charity of Christians? Go down to your local church and help them with the food drives, the toys for tots, or attend an AA meeting, and actually learn something about church ministries, why don't you?

I spend every waking moment helping people in a meaningful way. I tend to the sick and needy. I do a lot of it for free. Stop making this personal.

JLP, from your post, I see that you conclude that the time and money spent on religion does end up helping the needy. Ok, I don't have any real statistics here, I was looking for opinions. So thats yours. I feel that if you add up all the money and time spent on religion, that very little of it is actually spent helping someone.

Here is an example: Al Gore is spending 250 million a year to raise awareness on global warming through his non profit. Not one dollar is spend actually cleaning things up or developing new energy sources. Not one dollar. I think that money and effort is being wasted.